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Welcome back everyone are you ready for some goals action,

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very good very good um i have three envelopes here with the new goals but before

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we get to those we will wrap up the last goals because a lot of exciting things

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happened uh for the last three goals.

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And the champions will talk a bit about what happened and what we achieved.

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And we will start with Carl and accessibility.

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Yeah.

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Oh, what?

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It's the thing is,

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Maybe I will just click here. Yeah.

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OK. Anyway, I will present what we did for the last two years for the Caddy

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4.0 goals, as an accessibility goal.

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But first of all, why accessibility? Why are we working on that?

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That, first of all, it's inclusive and give equal access to everyone.

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Like, a lot of us are not impacted by accessibility issues,

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but even though if you are getting older or friends of us, I mean,

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like there's a lot, huge proportion of the population, world population, which might have some.

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Vision issues, might not be able to use the mouse correctly.

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There's a lot of reasons why you want to,

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why you cannot use your computer as a normal user.

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It also improves usability, because even if you are not impacted by these sort

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of issues, just having a keyboard navigation in your applications improves the

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usability of your applications.

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Having a good contrast for UI elements helps everyone.

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Yeah, it's the right thing to do. Like you want to integrate,

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you want to make sure that everyone is able to be part of the society,

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be able to interact with computers because computers are so much important nowadays.

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Days, like if you want to order something, you need to use a computer.

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If you want to do like administrative stuff for your government,

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you often also need a computer.

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Yeah. And if that isn't enough to work on accessibility,

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there's also like, it's a law, like you have a lot of countries,

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as it is in Europe, in North America, And as a lot of other places,

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they are gradually requiring for public usage,

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but also for private companies to use only software which is accessible.

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So if we want to reach public institutions, we need accessibility.

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And did we manage to make KDE accessible?

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I don't think so, because it's not something that you can do in two years.

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It's a long process and it takes time.

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It takes time, it takes development effort and yeah, but we did manage to do a lot of things still.

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Um, yeah, as well, like we had a lot of accessibility improvements in Plasma,

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in the applications, in KDE frameworks, and even in Qt.

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Um, and I mean, like for example, in Plasma, the range of accessibility improvements,

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it's from keyboard navigation,

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color blindness corrections in Plasma.

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Screen reader support. It's not like one thing that we did.

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It's a wide range of issues we solved.

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And we also did improvements in frameworks and Qt helps everyone.

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Each time we fix an issue in KGami or in widget add-ons or in Qt,

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it makes it easier for other people to build accessible applications.

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Sure, they can also mess up in their own application accessibility,

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but trying to make like the default widgets accessible is super important.

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Yeah. I mean, this is like a screenshot of accessibility tech measure quest for the Plasma Group.

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Only for the Plasma Group. And you can see there was like two more than 200

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mesh requests open, and from them, there was like almost 200 meshed.

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There's still a bit open and a few like which were marked as invalid.

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And outside of improving the accessibility of our applications,

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we also did a lot of work inside the tooling.

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For example, there's a new applications, Accessibility Inspector,

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which allows you to look at your applications and look at the accessibility,

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look at the state of the accessibility there.

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The application was actually quite older, but it was never released.

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It was super hidden inside the build folder.

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And yeah, now it's a Probe application which is released and a lot of improvements

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thanks also to Laurent and others.

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Yeah.

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But there's also a lot more improvements to the tooling. There's a Selenium driver.

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It allows you to write integration testing based on the accessibility API.

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So each time you want to write integration tests, because you should write tests

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in your applications, you also make sure that your application is accessible,

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because if it's not accessible, you cannot test it.

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So you are forced to make it accessible.

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And that helped a lot. And not only for my goal, but also for other goals,

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which we'll probably talk about later.

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And, yeah, it's provided by the IT SPI Dbus API.

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And this was all done by Ault, mostly, super good work.

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Yeah. We also did some improvement to the documentations because with the documentations,

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you need to learn everything again.

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So we had like no documentation about how to write tests.

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For Selenium.

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We also had a gold sprint in April this year in Berlin, where we tried to combine

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every gold together in a room.

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It was super productive.

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I mean, every sprint is super productive. We managed to fix a lot of bugs in

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Kigami, Kigami add-ons, some applications. So, yeah.

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But I mean, there is still a lot of future work to do. Like I said earlier,

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we are not accessible yet.

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There are still a lot of things to do, to improve situations.

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For example, text-to-speech. There are new frameworks to do that,

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based on Dbus, which is compatible with Flatpak and Snap,

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which we need to implement in Qt.

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Because there's an abstraction in Qt, and we need to implement that, it's a lot of work.

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There is some work going on about the replacement API for ITSPI.

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So, it's still like really, really working phase, but we need to get involved

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there and try to make sure that it's good for us.

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And yeah, there's also like in many applications, as even Plasma,

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we see like a lot of work to do, to be done, to fix many issues and yeah.

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Yeah, so a few lessons learned as a goalkeeper, um, it's not because there's

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a goal was voted by the committee, but you will certainly find yourself with

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a lot of contributors to that goal.

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Um, that's, I mean, it's like we are a community. We are not, we don't have managers.

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We don't have people who tell us to work on this thing and this thing.

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And I think it's a good thing to be able to have some freedom on what we want to work on.

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And a lot of people are already overloaded by their own projects and tasks.

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So it's always a bit difficult to find contributors to work on some topics.

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And I think as a golf keeper, probably we should try to,

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to do a lot more outreach to the developers and the community to make sure that

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people are aware about the goals and.

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I recommend them to invest a bit of time there and tell them what the advantage

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for them is, like, for example, having like iteration tests is super important.

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Like it's something like you, it's a bit of work at the beginning.

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You need to fix your accessibility. You need to write the tests,

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but at the end, it's super rewarding because then you find you have less bugs.

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Don't fix all the bugs, but you find you have less equations.

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So you need to do like a more outreach there.

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And for the last slides, I want to thanks like everyone who worked on accessibility.

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There's a few names there, but there's actually like a lot more people who did

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work there. And it's super.

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Yeah ok.

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Next one Nate for the automation goal thanks Carl,

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let's see first of all million dollar question So, here's the best accessibility improvement we got.

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Not done yet.

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Still going. Okay, I'm done now.

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So now I'd like to talk about my goal, automation and systematization.

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This is definitely the easiest to pronounce goal out there.

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So that definitely makes it the most important one forever.

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So the important thing of this goal was to enable all of us to be lazier,

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because that's the point of automation and systematization.

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All of us are overloaded all the time. I think everybody in this room has the

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experience of having 10 times more things to do than you have time to do them.

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And one thing that's often the case for people like us who are highly productive

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is that we find ourselves saddled with grunt work. We have terminal commands to run.

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We have email responses to craft that we've already sent 10 times before.

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All sorts of things that we're experts at doing, but that take up time.

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And when you have tasks like that, that you repeat over and over again,

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it consumes a significant amount of your own time and resources and life's energy.

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And so the idea here was that we should all focus on automating away these kinds

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of tasks that we don't actually really want to do and that we're very good at.

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And when we do that, we get a whole lot more time left that we can actually

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put into doing the things that we want to be spending our time on,

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the things that give us joy and make us happy and push forward the state of the art.

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When we look at this

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the goal was essentially animated by three principles

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behind that the first one is

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that automation beats manual labor manual labor is error prone it's time consuming

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it's boring it's not fun we've all had this experience of doing something that

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we've done a million times before and it's just not a good use of your time

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so for all of those things it's good to automate away all of those tasks.

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The other one is that policies are better than opinions.

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It's another thing that I think we've all had the experience of is that you

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propose a change, you say, let's do this, you open up a merge request,

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and you get a comment that says, plus one, I like it.

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And then somebody else says, minus one, I don't like it.

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And now what? What do you do? If you don't have a policy to guide what goes

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next, oftentimes this just gets stuck forever.

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And so the idea here is that if we can all get together and we can agree on

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certain methods of doing things, on certain policies behind decision-making,

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that it can cut down on the number of plus one I like it, minus one I don't

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like it. That is just not terribly productive.

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And so there was a focus on making decision making systematic in this way that's

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sort of not technical, it's more social.

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But that was another thing that we wanted to focus on for this goal.

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And the third one, the third idea behind this was that it's better to work on

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a team than to work alone, because working alone is very lonely.

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And it's it can be hard to find other people who want to help you,

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you get depressed and disappointed when you burn out and need to take a break,

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nobody takes over the work for you.

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So it's much better if we can work as teams and we can communicate as teams,

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rather than just doing everything privately all alone, because it's sad and makes us unhappy.

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Uh, there's sort of the why bother question about all of this,

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which is the elephant in the room.

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So if all of us are just here working on KDE forever, we've certainly got infinite time, right?

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Well, the fact of the matter is that KDE is a multi-generational institution.

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Uh, all of us are here today. We were not here yesterday and we may not be here tomorrow.

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Metaphorically speaking, of course, hopefully we actually were here yesterday

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and we'll be here tomorrow, but hopefully you know what I mean.

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The fact of the matter is that people come

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and go and that is totally okay it's a fact amazing

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it's one of the things that makes kde so incredible is

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that we've managed to keep up the interest and enthusiasm for the overall project

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over almost three decades but this necessarily means that there's a lot of turnover

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and that means that people when they leave take their knowledge and their labor

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with them if you look at this graph here this is something that carl has put

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together other recently. Thank you, Carl.

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The colors are essentially individual years' worth of contributors.

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And if you look at that big blob of orange people, those orange people kind of fell off over time.

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And everything those orange people

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knew was lost if they didn't embed that knowledge in code, in automation,

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and in documentation, so that by the time those red and blue people showed up,

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they didn't know the things that the orange people knew if it

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wasn't documented and preserved in processes

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properly and so i think this kind of a graph is really important for all of

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us to consider in terms of our legacies in kde you know whichever color we represent

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on this graph if we want everything that we produced to continue and be used

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and built upon by the next generation,

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we have to make active efforts to make sure that happens and that's basically

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what this goal was is all about.

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We've already touched a little bit on some of the benefits.

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Let's briefly go over that again. Probably the biggest one is quality.

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Because when you do things according to processes and automation and tooling,

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you end up with a better result because it's not kind of random and dictated

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by who had time or who had skills or which person happened to be doing it at

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this particular moment in time.

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And the other thing you get out of this is consistency, because when something

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gets done the same way, or at least according to the same process every single

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time, then you get a repeatable result.

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And repeatability of results is really important, because it's something that

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increases the perception of stability in your software,

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and it makes it possible for normal people who don't have the incredible pattern

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recognition recognition skills of engineers like us to use something just because

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it behaves the same way every single time.

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And that's important for us to have in our software and in our internal processes too.

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And the other thing, of course, it gives us this free time because who wants

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to do crap that's boring, right? We all want to be writing new features.

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We want to be improving the user interface. We want to do things that are enjoyable.

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We don't want to be fixing the the same bug 10 times over again because

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it keeps regressing and nobody noticed um maybe

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10 is an exaggeration but i can think of specific bugs that have

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regressed three times in memory and even that's too much so let's not do that

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right uh when we do this we'll have less grunt work to do fewer regressions

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and uh i think i mentioned earlier arguments and merge requests another Another

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thing is style nitpicks,

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which is in some cases more frustrating than arguments in merge request.

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When you submit a big block of code and you get people saying,

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well, please put a semicolon at the end of this line of JavaScript.

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And don't put a semicolon at the end of this line of JavaScript.

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And, you know, we have tools that can format these things automatically, right?

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This is a waste of our life having these arguments, like pick something and then move on.

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So there was an effort to do those sorts of things.

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When we look at what the goal was actually focused on in terms of actions,

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we did a lot of automated testing.

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Carl mentioned ATSPI and Selenium, which was incredible work and something that

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really synergized very well across the goals.

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Harold, as mentioned earlier, was really instrumental in bringing this technology

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to the forefront, and it allowed us to improve our code coverage and testing

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as well as accessibility at the same time.

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So, especially in Plasma, we saw a really enthusiastic adoption of this technology.

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And now we have a huge number of user interface tests that seem kind of silly

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and dumb, but, you know, push the button and make sure the thing happens when you push the button.

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Turns out that's really important. So we have a lot of that now.

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And that's really great.

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Another aspect of the work was automatic bug triage.

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Bug triage is something that I think everybody in this room hates,

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myself included. I do a lot of it.

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You might be forgiven for thinking that I enjoy it. I don't. Nobody likes it.

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So let's do less of it, not because

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we're ignoring it, but because we have machines to do it for us, right?

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So we have this thing called the Bugzilla bot, and it will apply certain canned

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answers to common issues that people have in bug reports,

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and it will prompt people to improve their bug reports, automatically close

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old ones that were submitted for versions not in support anymore.

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This is something that there's a huge amount of low-hanging fruit on,

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but there was significant progress anyway, and that made a big difference.

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And finally, what we also have is the subject of documentation.

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Documentation is is in some aspects the weakest focus here, because it requires active maintenance.

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Documentation gets stale and goes out of date very quickly. But it's nonetheless

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really important that we make an effort to keep it up to date,

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because documentation that's out of date,

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is in many ways worse than no documentation at all, because it can send people

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down the wrong path and making wrong decisions.

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If we look at what succeeded in this, first, let's look at this fun graph.

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In terms of bug triage, if you look at this, the red line is the number of unconfirmed

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bugs in PlasmaShell over time.

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And you can see that that drops precipitously and then keeps falling for a while.

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Now, I mentioned automatic bug triage. I'm not going to say that the Bugzilla

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bot produced this, but the Bugzilla bot made it easier for bug triagers to focus

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on the bug reports that actually mattered.

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So they didn't spend all of their time saying, I'm sorry, Plasma 5.12 is out of date.

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Can you please try using a better distro?

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That's just not something we have to do anymore because a machine does that

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for us. We have machines to bash distros now, which is a major improvement.

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We've got all sorts of other stuff,

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too. we made it mandatory for a lot of projects to pass their tests.

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We had tests. Some were disabled. Some were perpetually broken.

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There was a major focus on making sure that tests actually do what they're supposed to be doing.

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We have continuous integration jobs to build Flatpaks and Windows binaries,

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so we can just spit those out on command. That's super cool.

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No more manual labor there.

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Like I talked about, we did Bugzilla bot stuff. There was a lot of documentation updates.

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Some of this was driven by Tiago, KDE EV's documentation contractor,

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but a lot of it was volunteer-driven as well, which was fantastic.

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And on the subject of documentation, we got a whole new user,

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a whole new set of human interface guidelines, which was rewritten from scratch

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to actually be applicable to the way KDE designs and builds software today.

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And we've already seen some great results from that in the form of people submitting

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changes to bring applications in conformance with the human interface guidelines,

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which kind of goes to the point about when you have processes that work,

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people follow the processes, right?

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Uh, nonetheless, we saw some challenges with this goal.

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Um, probably the biggest one was that nothing encompassed under this goal is ever truly urgent.

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You know, we all have our, our daily fires to put out. All this stuff is always backburner stuff.

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Uh, it can be tempting to push it off until later and say, well,

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you know, we'll, we'll ship it in a, in a state that's good enough now.

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And then we'll, we'll care about that stuff later.

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And I don't think there's a silver bullet for this, but it really requires vigilance

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to make sure that we're, we're improving the processes and the quality at the

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same time that we're shipping the software.

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Another major challenge for us was that even with ATSPI and Selenium,

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writing tests is still just really hard.

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It's probably harder than it should be, and it makes it more difficult for people

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to just kind of throw in new auto tests whenever they add a new feature or change

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the user interface or something.

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I think there's some friction there that can still be lessened a little bit.

304
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And then also, let's face it, it's kind of boring.

305
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Everything about this goal was the opposite of flashy and exciting.

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And so ensuring that there was

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motivation to actually do the work has been quite a challenge over time.

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This is not an indictment of anybody in the room. If anything,

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frankly, it's an indictment of me, the gold champion, which gets to the final point.

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I probably did not lead this goal

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in as active a way as I think in retrospect I

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would have I would have liked to and that I

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think ended up being a challenge for for the goal itself and that leads me to

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some lessons learned that I can share as a goal champion I've now been a goal

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champion for two goals I did usability and productivity a few years ago and

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then I sat it out for the cycle after that. And then I did automation and systematization.

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And one thing that I really feel like I can say as a gold champion is that,

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being proactive and leading by example is super important.

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It's very easy to make fancy presentations, but nothing spurs on work like work.

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And so if you're the goal champion, it's very important that you be seen doing

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the work and that you then communicate that work.

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I'm going to skip something here, but on the subject of communication,

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another thing that I I found in this particular goal cycle was that episodic

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communication in the form of fewer updates about larger,

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more impactful wins seemed to be more motivating than a steady stream of small things.

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It seemed like it was easy for people to kind of tune out a stream of small

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wins, whereas whenever there was something really big that got announced,

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that would generate quite a bit of attention.

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So I would say for our future gold champions, try to focus on the big wins.

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You know, that's more motivating.

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And the final thing here is that it's just really difficult to change things,

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especially when the status quo is good enough.

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We have incredible engineering talent in KDE. And so people are already largely

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accustomed to doing things like writing auto tests, keeping up documentation,

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following good practices in their commit messages, being collegial.

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And so our status quo is already pretty darn good.

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It's, I would say, in many ways,

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much better than what you see in a lot of private companies out there.

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And so when the status quo is already good, it can be challenging to keep up

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the motivation to improve it even further.

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And that's something that I think we can all have a thought about,

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you know, how we can take a lot of this stuff to the next level.

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And, yep, that's the end. Thank you, everybody, for your support in this goal

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and for supporting me and doing all this work. It was fantastic to be your gold champion.

345
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I'm going to hand it off to Cornelius now.

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Here we go. Thank you.

347
00:27:58,669 --> 00:28:02,989
You. Let's move the mouse pointer out of the way. So yeah, I will present you

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what we achieved with the sustainable software goal.

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That's the third goal in the row.

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And what I will present is mostly what we did in the two years,

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but also a little bit what happened before and what will happen after.

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So you already heard it in our keynote this morning, we have a problem.

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The way we are living is not sustainable and we are contributing to it,

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but we are also able to do something about it.

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So I won't go into the details why it's important, but I think we all agree

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that it is important to do something.

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And software plays a role in that. KDE as a project, KDE as in what we produce

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in terms of software products, this has an impact.

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Software has an impact on how IT is used, how computers are used,

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how other devices are used, and we can do something there by focusing on doing

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that in a more sustainable way.

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And that was what this was about, about KDE delivering sustainable software.

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And when we started with the goal, we basically approached three perspectives.

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So the first one is to do alignment of what already was happening in the community,

365
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also aligning with others more like sorting out

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what is important there and trying to put it together

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in a meaningful form the second area

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visibility quite important because a lot of what we did there was not about

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introducing new things but making visible what already happens in free software

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and kde specifically there's a lot which is already paying into this goal of

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doing sustainable software.

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So making this more visible also to the outside.

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That was the second part. And the third part, then concrete initiatives where

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we did projects to improve things in a lot of different areas.

375
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And what we did there, I will now show you in detail.

376
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First, the alignment area. So you already saw the picture from the joint goal

377
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sprint. sprint that really was nice that we got together there,

378
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there actually was quite a bit of crossover between the goals.

379
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So all the selenium work is really important to also automate tests to measure

380
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energy efficiency. We will come to that in a second.

381
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So getting together there really was a nice thing to bring people together and

382
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to work together on the goal topics.

383
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And what we also saw is that, basically, the alignment is that we had a few

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individual initiatives where we put things together.

385
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And it all, I think, culminated in the KDE eco-community becoming a thing.

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So now we are really collecting things under this. We have regular meetups. We have a website.

387
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And we have discussion forums and so on.

388
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And i think we we are developing this common understanding that this is the

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umbrella where we can really bring these topics together so a lot of that is

390
00:31:10,144 --> 00:31:11,004
actually happening there,

391
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i will talk about the individual points

392
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in detail and when we come to the initiatives and

393
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you will all find that on the website and that

394
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actually was also a result of the sprint um we did

395
00:31:24,164 --> 00:31:27,004
there we did some brainstorming there

396
00:31:27,004 --> 00:31:29,944
you see some sketches there so this was a really nice initiative

397
00:31:29,944 --> 00:31:34,384
to be in together there in person to be able to sketch things on whiteboards

398
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and so on and we came up with a structure how we actually want to collect things

399
00:31:40,324 --> 00:31:45,464
and present things and this is now actually live on the website reflected there

400
00:31:45,464 --> 00:31:48,804
so addressing the three areas of users.

401
00:31:49,664 --> 00:31:55,224
Who take benefit from using sustainable software then advocates want to help

402
00:31:55,224 --> 00:31:58,884
others to understand what the issues are and do something about it.

403
00:31:59,024 --> 00:32:03,484
And then the developers, so a lot of people here in this room who are working

404
00:32:03,484 --> 00:32:06,164
on the software which is used by these groups.

405
00:32:08,244 --> 00:32:12,344
And this all fits really nicely together with KDE's overall vision.

406
00:32:12,624 --> 00:32:18,064
So what we really saw with the Sustainable Software goal and the values which

407
00:32:18,064 --> 00:32:21,064
are behind that, that aligns with KDE's mission.

408
00:32:21,224 --> 00:32:26,704
This is about control for everybody, for everybody with the digital devices,

409
00:32:26,904 --> 00:32:32,764
with the software that they are in control of not contributing to this burning planet we saw before.

410
00:32:33,484 --> 00:32:40,724
So this aligns very well and now we come to the second area of visibility.

411
00:32:43,028 --> 00:32:47,588
So we also already saw that in the keynote, and this actually happened before

412
00:32:47,588 --> 00:32:52,028
we started the sustainable software goal. We got the Blue Angel for Ocula.

413
00:32:52,488 --> 00:32:59,368
And this really was, I think, you can ask a question how useful it is to have

414
00:32:59,368 --> 00:33:05,428
a label for a piece of software when nobody else really has adopted the label yet.

415
00:33:06,268 --> 00:33:10,408
But I think it sends a quite important message. It sends the message that it

416
00:33:10,408 --> 00:33:12,568
is possible to do the sustainable software.

417
00:33:13,028 --> 00:33:19,108
The criteria of the blue label make a lot of sense in terms of resource efficiency energy efficiency.

418
00:33:19,908 --> 00:33:22,768
Also in preventing hardware to become obsolete and also

419
00:33:22,768 --> 00:33:27,408
to give people autonomy about how they use their software so this is reflected

420
00:33:27,408 --> 00:33:30,848
there we proved that it's possible to do with our software with free software

421
00:33:30,848 --> 00:33:35,748
and this gave us attention so you see the award ceremony where we got the official

422
00:33:35,748 --> 00:33:41,148
paper document with the Blue Angel on it.

423
00:33:41,768 --> 00:33:49,348
And this also led to quite some other things which were only possible because we did that.

424
00:33:49,788 --> 00:33:56,688
So one thing we did over the last year or so was we were being involved in revising the Blue Angel.

425
00:33:56,868 --> 00:34:00,508
There was initiative by the Umweltbundesamt, the German Federal Environmental

426
00:34:00,508 --> 00:34:02,868
Agency who was doing the labor,

427
00:34:02,868 --> 00:34:05,808
and they were extending the scope

428
00:34:05,808 --> 00:34:08,848
revising it and they asked for feedback where we

429
00:34:08,848 --> 00:34:12,168
were involved with a couple of workshops we participated could

430
00:34:12,168 --> 00:34:15,148
contribute our experience with actually fulfilling the

431
00:34:15,148 --> 00:34:18,248
criteria and yeah the

432
00:34:18,248 --> 00:34:21,168
result of that is now extended set of criteria

433
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which not only covers desktop software was also servers and server software

434
00:34:25,328 --> 00:34:30,488
and mobile software and for ocula that we checked that it basically means we

435
00:34:30,488 --> 00:34:35,188
will continue and it will we'll continue to have the Blue Angel label so we

436
00:34:35,188 --> 00:34:39,108
can work with us in promotion and everything else to continue.

437
00:34:39,408 --> 00:34:44,988
One open question is, do we want to certify more applications? So.

438
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:51,070
So we have an answer. Perfect. So it's possible we have set up a framework to do that.

439
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:55,050
It actually has become easier with the revised criteria because the measurement

440
00:34:55,050 --> 00:34:56,390
process is more flexible.

441
00:34:57,150 --> 00:35:00,230
It's more about documenting than about following a certain procedure.

442
00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:05,010
And we can help you with that. So if you're interested in your application being

443
00:35:05,010 --> 00:35:09,550
certified with the Blue Angel, talk to me. Talk to the ECHO community.

444
00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:12,050
We are well prepared for that.

445
00:35:15,870 --> 00:35:19,550
And a few things happened also as a result of that, so this is one opportunity

446
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:25,210
where we got invited as an expert to a conference in the German Parliament about

447
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:28,310
design and sustainability issues.

448
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:34,710
Because we were present on the landscape with the Blue Angels, so we could talk there.

449
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:39,550
It was actually quite an interesting event, talking to the people who actually

450
00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:41,910
are quite in line with what we are thinking there.

451
00:35:42,690 --> 00:35:47,670
So I was surprised how much alignment there is actually to people outside of our community.

452
00:35:47,970 --> 00:35:53,170
We usually don't really see that much because we are staying in our respective bubbles.

453
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:58,530
So it was really nice to get this outreach and meet other people there.

454
00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:05,230
And another thing which also was indirectly triggered by the Blue Angel was

455
00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:09,170
this article in the second biggest German newspaper,

456
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:15,250
where they had actually a pretty nice article about how programming is possible

457
00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:17,130
in an environmentally friendly way.

458
00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:21,050
So they reported about what we did with BuAngel, what this means for society

459
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:25,190
and for sustainability, and gave us a really nice audience there.

460
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:30,630
And that was not the only thing where we actually got press attention by what

461
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:34,490
we are doing there, which again, I think is a nice effect of doing these things,

462
00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:36,210
which, yeah, visibility and.

463
00:36:39,799 --> 00:36:45,779
And we also gave a lot of presentations, Joseph was very busy with that, on many conferences.

464
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:52,739
I also gave one of the more impactful conferences was the Bits and Boimer, so Bits and Trees.

465
00:36:52,979 --> 00:36:57,819
That's a crossover of technology conference and other sustainability groups.

466
00:36:58,219 --> 00:37:02,779
And I was talking there in detail about what we did to get the Blue Angels,

467
00:37:02,859 --> 00:37:07,319
so if you're interested in that, you can watch the presentation, there's a recording.

468
00:37:07,319 --> 00:37:11,639
And again, I think that was really nice because we saw that our vision,

469
00:37:11,779 --> 00:37:18,779
how we see KDE, our values align with many other people's and many other people's values.

470
00:37:19,319 --> 00:37:25,059
And there's a bigger crowd there than just us who was following the same goals.

471
00:37:25,259 --> 00:37:30,279
So that was a nice effect of this goal to see that we are not alone.

472
00:37:32,899 --> 00:37:40,479
This continues. So, some of the events, we are present now in many areas,

473
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:49,059
one example of a bring it back to life event going about installing software

474
00:37:49,059 --> 00:37:52,019
on old hardware, we'll talk about that a little bit more.

475
00:37:52,939 --> 00:37:58,579
We have a list of actually events and presentations, if you follow the URL there

476
00:37:58,579 --> 00:38:03,919
where you can reach out to the people who did that, and also see the presentations

477
00:38:03,919 --> 00:38:05,659
and many more things there.

478
00:38:07,767 --> 00:38:13,847
And a different form of visibility, as I said, KDE already is doing a lot of sustainable software.

479
00:38:14,007 --> 00:38:16,547
We already did that before, but often it's not very visible.

480
00:38:16,787 --> 00:38:21,567
People don't recognize that. So one way we approached that was to add on the

481
00:38:21,567 --> 00:38:26,307
Ocular website a nice new tab, which actually shows all this information,

482
00:38:26,567 --> 00:38:31,587
make people understand why it's important and how free software does that and Ocular specifically.

483
00:38:32,027 --> 00:38:36,087
So addressing all the different areas we are addressing in our software,

484
00:38:36,087 --> 00:38:38,287
which are also covered by the Blue Anger.

485
00:38:41,907 --> 00:38:47,887
So, some more initiatives we did where we worked on specific things.

486
00:38:51,347 --> 00:38:56,507
So, one thing which I think helped us quite a bit in working on the Sustainable

487
00:38:56,507 --> 00:39:02,727
Software Goal was that we already had the funded projects funded by the German Bundesamt,

488
00:39:04,687 --> 00:39:07,447
to work on Blue Angel for free software.

489
00:39:07,607 --> 00:39:09,867
That was the name of the project. So there we helped.

490
00:39:11,587 --> 00:39:15,427
The idea was to put together information how you can actually get the Blue Angel

491
00:39:15,427 --> 00:39:19,407
and how you can fulfill the criteria even if you are not going to the certification

492
00:39:19,407 --> 00:39:23,307
that you actually have help with doing the measurements and what is involved in there.

493
00:39:23,487 --> 00:39:26,427
So this is actually the resource, the handbook, which got out of that.

494
00:39:26,527 --> 00:39:29,927
If you want to get the Blue Angel, start reading there.

495
00:39:30,047 --> 00:39:32,987
It already contains a lot of information. probably needs

496
00:39:32,987 --> 00:39:38,967
an update now after the criteria got revised but that's certainly still a very

497
00:39:38,967 --> 00:39:46,147
helpful resource and this project got us yeah the funding to have people have

498
00:39:46,147 --> 00:39:50,767
some time to get the community going to get projects going so this was really helpful.

499
00:39:53,027 --> 00:39:56,547
And there's another project and this already was mentioned in the keynote this

500
00:39:56,547 --> 00:40:03,947
morning as well the OptGreen project to help people to use free software,

501
00:40:04,047 --> 00:40:08,487
a sustainable software, on older hardware so that hardware doesn't have to go to waste.

502
00:40:08,887 --> 00:40:10,747
And this is now ongoing.

503
00:40:11,167 --> 00:40:15,467
And again, I think having the goal helped us to get the project,

504
00:40:15,667 --> 00:40:19,787
but also helps us to keep the activities and the goal moving.

505
00:40:20,427 --> 00:40:23,947
So this is really, at the moment, current. So have a look there.

506
00:40:23,947 --> 00:40:26,747
There are things where you can help.

507
00:40:27,047 --> 00:40:31,427
And one thing I like about this project, that it's again about reaching out

508
00:40:31,427 --> 00:40:33,747
to an extended audience,

509
00:40:34,007 --> 00:40:38,507
reaching out beyond the technical people who are programming KDE,

510
00:40:38,727 --> 00:40:42,967
but us going to people who align with our values,

511
00:40:43,187 --> 00:40:46,867
who also think about sustainability, maybe from a different perspective,

512
00:40:46,967 --> 00:40:49,987
and see where are the synergies, where can we get together,

513
00:40:50,127 --> 00:40:54,407
how can we help them to get over the technical obstacles, but also learn from

514
00:40:54,407 --> 00:40:58,767
them how to address things in a broader scope.

515
00:41:02,645 --> 00:41:07,605
Another initiative which also was ongoing before we started with the goal which

516
00:41:07,605 --> 00:41:12,485
was necessary to get the Blue Angel certification is KE-EcoLab.

517
00:41:12,725 --> 00:41:17,465
So this is a measurement lab where we measure energy efficiency and resource efficiency.

518
00:41:18,985 --> 00:41:24,165
We have set up a small system there where it's possible to follow the procedure

519
00:41:24,165 --> 00:41:28,805
which is defined by the original Blue Angel criteria and

520
00:41:29,085 --> 00:41:32,385
there was a lot of activity on this

521
00:41:32,385 --> 00:41:35,045
making this more accessible so that you could

522
00:41:35,045 --> 00:41:38,245
also do remote measurements also the tooling

523
00:41:38,245 --> 00:41:42,425
using the automation which is necessary to do these measurements there we also

524
00:41:42,425 --> 00:41:48,505
looked into this selenium based automation and different things so this lab

525
00:41:48,505 --> 00:41:55,425
is available and it's the yeah it's continuing and we want to expand that Also,

526
00:41:55,625 --> 00:41:57,265
I think this is now one lab.

527
00:41:57,705 --> 00:42:02,085
The setup is not very complicated, it's not very expensive, so you could set

528
00:42:02,085 --> 00:42:06,365
up a similar lab anywhere else if you're interested to do your own measurements.

529
00:42:06,625 --> 00:42:10,845
If you have an old computer somewhere, the only thing you need is a measurement

530
00:42:10,845 --> 00:42:12,945
device and some software to actually run it.

531
00:42:17,859 --> 00:42:21,439
And a lot of things which helped with the Ecolab, but also beyond that,

532
00:42:21,579 --> 00:42:26,399
happened in the season of KDE and some of code initiatives.

533
00:42:27,059 --> 00:42:31,979
So we had quite a number of projects there looking into energy consumption and

534
00:42:31,979 --> 00:42:34,319
different other aspects helping with the Ecolab.

535
00:42:34,499 --> 00:42:38,879
So if you are interested in these, these are actually clickable links.

536
00:42:38,979 --> 00:42:44,259
If you download the slides after the talk, you can look them up.

537
00:42:45,059 --> 00:42:47,819
Yeah and thanks to to all the people there who helped with

538
00:42:47,819 --> 00:42:50,599
mentoring that but also of course who are doing the projects i

539
00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:54,539
think this really is a very nice way how to keep people

540
00:42:54,539 --> 00:43:00,959
coming to kde helping them to grow and get really really good results from that

541
00:43:00,959 --> 00:43:12,039
so yeah and in this sense I mentioned it before, but to make it a little bit more specifically,

542
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:16,439
especially with K-Ecolab, we had a lot of help from people who already worked

543
00:43:16,439 --> 00:43:19,279
on measuring energy in different ways.

544
00:43:19,899 --> 00:43:25,239
So the Umweltcampus Birkenfeld, that was the group of scientists who were working,

545
00:43:25,399 --> 00:43:31,279
who have actually created the first Blue Angel criteria and the measurement procedures there.

546
00:43:31,419 --> 00:43:38,619
So they also helped us a lot. We were in good contact, but also other groups

547
00:43:38,619 --> 00:43:44,939
we met through this goal and what we did there, like Recoding Berlin.

548
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:53,239
I think they renamed themselves, but these are great guys who also have a similar

549
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,859
direction in what they're doing.

550
00:43:55,859 --> 00:43:58,939
Um and and that's i think also quite helpful to

551
00:43:58,939 --> 00:44:05,479
to get together so um that we can actually see how others approach that and

552
00:44:05,479 --> 00:44:10,279
we can just broaden um our activities there because we are limited number of

553
00:44:10,279 --> 00:44:16,179
people and i think we can need all the help we get so doing things together always is a good idea.

554
00:44:19,842 --> 00:44:24,762
So, maybe a few words about what didn't work, what did we learn.

555
00:44:26,602 --> 00:44:30,062
So of course there were a lot of ideas when we started the goal,

556
00:44:30,242 --> 00:44:31,922
but not everything came to life.

557
00:44:32,262 --> 00:44:38,142
So one thing we sketched out at the beginning was that it would be nice to make

558
00:44:38,142 --> 00:44:44,702
it more transparent in KDE, where we already have documents explaining sustainability aspects,

559
00:44:44,962 --> 00:44:48,222
where we have energy management measurements and stuff like that.

560
00:44:48,222 --> 00:44:52,082
So the idea was to have something similar to the translation dashboard where

561
00:44:52,082 --> 00:44:57,322
you can see, okay, how different applications are there.

562
00:44:58,182 --> 00:45:02,982
So this didn't happen. We did, I think, that's basically all what happened there.

563
00:45:03,642 --> 00:45:09,522
We have a sketch. I think the idea is a nice one. Maybe something happens there.

564
00:45:10,002 --> 00:45:18,442
But that's where we, I think, didn't manage to engage the rest of the community

565
00:45:18,442 --> 00:45:22,422
in a way that there would be any visible progress.

566
00:45:23,442 --> 00:45:25,582
So I think that's one of the challenges there.

567
00:45:27,222 --> 00:45:31,902
Another thing we wanted to do where we did a few steps with CAEcoLab,

568
00:45:31,962 --> 00:45:38,342
but we are not done yet, was to make, adding to performance and other measurements,

569
00:45:38,442 --> 00:45:40,142
but really energy efficiency measurements,

570
00:45:40,462 --> 00:45:44,762
adding that to our CI so that we could have something like a sustainability

571
00:45:44,762 --> 00:45:48,862
gate in our release process, making sure that applications are not consuming

572
00:45:48,862 --> 00:45:51,982
twice as much energy as before without us knowing.

573
00:45:52,202 --> 00:45:57,102
So having these tests integrated in the CI, that was one of the original visions

574
00:45:57,102 --> 00:46:00,462
very long ago, but we are not there yet.

575
00:46:00,962 --> 00:46:07,382
Again that is something of course which affects much more people and which also

576
00:46:07,382 --> 00:46:08,702
needs more support from the community.

577
00:46:08,902 --> 00:46:11,642
So it would be nice to continue to work on that.

578
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:19,360
But in general, I think one thing I perceived as something where we weren't

579
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:24,620
successful, although we achieved a lot, is that we achieved that as this KDEco

580
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:28,740
team, and that was a really good group, and it was nice to get new people in there as well.

581
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,580
But the engagement, and Karl also mentioned that, with the rest of the community.

582
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,320
We didn't manage to get many people involved there.

583
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,340
So that was, I think, I don't know.

584
00:46:42,340 --> 00:46:49,340
My feeling is that we have a lot of sub-communities in KDE which work really

585
00:46:49,340 --> 00:46:53,540
nicely together and have great results, create great applications and so on.

586
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:58,540
But these overreaching goals, these things which we really need people to come

587
00:46:58,540 --> 00:46:59,680
together, I mean, we are here.

588
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,800
That's a great thing. But we are a very distributed community.

589
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,580
And how can we act more as one community?

590
00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:13,880
I think we are a little bit separated there in a group of more decentralized communities.

591
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,440
Maybe we can really find ways how to

592
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,980
get together with these goals like sustainability or the upcoming goals.

593
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,160
I'm really curious to see what they are, but get people together.

594
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,840
So I can only encourage you to look into what is happening in the goals and

595
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,500
see how this could relate to the area where you are working on and how we can make a bigger impact.

596
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:41,300
Because as we have seen, KDE, I think we underestimate how much the impact is

597
00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:45,000
we can have with KDE. People know KDE.

598
00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:49,400
And I mean, we can get into the press, we can get invited to conferences,

599
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:51,700
we can do things which really make a difference.

600
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:58,920
So I think we should do that and use the strength of KDE as the one community we are.

601
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,420
Yeah, the sustainability software goal. So officially, we are now wrapping up,

602
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,700
but the goal work is not finished yet, of course.

603
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,180
There's still more to do, so the goal is on.

604
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,820
Please get involved if you're interested in that. We have a mailing list.

605
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:23,080
We have the community website where you can find all the information.

606
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,540
We have a GitLab group where all the projects are there.

607
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,480
So there are lots of things which still need to be done. so please get involved

608
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,940
and help with sustainable software in the future as well.

609
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:45,280
And during Academy there will be two BoFs I want to point out about specific

610
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,120
topics I mentioned before.

611
00:48:47,420 --> 00:48:50,540
So one about K-Ecolab and one about the OpGreen project.

612
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,260
I think there also will be a presentation about the OpGreen project later.

613
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:01,480
So these BoFs, attend them. That's a great way to group.

614
00:49:08,452 --> 00:49:17,032
Okay so the times are the other way around the opt green both is at 10 and the other one at 15.

615
00:49:17,832 --> 00:49:22,272
So check the wiki to be sure you get to the right room at the right time,

616
00:49:24,132 --> 00:49:29,172
so yeah um we don't want to plan it to burn we still want to have a good living here,

617
00:49:29,692 --> 00:49:34,932
um so we have to do something we can do something as KDE I think we are in a

618
00:49:34,932 --> 00:49:40,892
position to actually change things and we are doing that and let's do it together.

619
00:49:54,252 --> 00:50:02,472
Doing q a now yeah cool come on up All right, now we have some time for questions

620
00:50:02,472 --> 00:50:04,652
for all of our gold champions.

621
00:50:06,052 --> 00:50:07,832
Yeah, does anyone have questions?

622
00:50:21,612 --> 00:50:27,352
Test, test, test. Not a question, but in the context of the accessibility goal,

623
00:50:27,492 --> 00:50:32,092
I would also like to thank NLNet for sponsoring some of the accessibility work

624
00:50:32,092 --> 00:50:34,692
in Plasma Wayland. That's it.

625
00:50:38,272 --> 00:50:38,332
Thank you.

626
00:50:49,017 --> 00:50:54,877
So I have two questions. The first one is about automation.

627
00:50:55,517 --> 00:51:01,557
I would like to ask about the switch from Fabricator to GitLab.

628
00:51:02,037 --> 00:51:12,317
So actually, I would prefer Fabricator than GitLab because Fabricator actually

629
00:51:12,317 --> 00:51:17,377
pressures you to write small changes.

630
00:51:17,377 --> 00:51:21,717
And it will get revealed more quickly.

631
00:51:21,917 --> 00:51:27,737
But in GitLab, you know, the merge request might get larger and larger and it's

632
00:51:27,737 --> 00:51:31,377
harder and harder to reveal and it will get stale.

633
00:51:31,537 --> 00:51:34,177
So what do you think about this?

634
00:51:35,597 --> 00:51:39,677
Does this work? Yes, sounds like it works. Thank you very much for the question.

635
00:51:40,317 --> 00:51:43,497
When it comes to Fabricator and... Uh-oh.

636
00:51:52,257 --> 00:51:52,997
Apparently,

637
00:51:57,957 --> 00:52:09,297
it turns out I'm a Terminator this is the mic like that does that work okay

638
00:52:09,297 --> 00:52:13,097
I know how to use technology no I don't,

639
00:52:14,117 --> 00:52:16,097
okay this thing goes over here.

640
00:52:25,857 --> 00:52:31,817
Okay uh anyway the decision was kind of made for us because fabricator was abandoned upstream,

641
00:52:34,517 --> 00:52:36,497
maybe it's right here i don't want.

642
00:52:52,015 --> 00:52:55,915
Testing? No. Switch is turned on. Says Mike.

643
00:52:58,075 --> 00:53:02,535
Is this better now? Okay, this is better now. Anyway, sorry about that.

644
00:53:03,255 --> 00:53:07,375
So I was going to say to a certain extent the decision was made for us because

645
00:53:07,375 --> 00:53:09,435
Fabricator was abandoned upstream

646
00:53:09,435 --> 00:53:12,915
essentially and we wanted to move to something that was maintained.

647
00:53:13,575 --> 00:53:17,275
I'll say that personally there were some aspects of Fabricator that I did prefer.

648
00:53:17,435 --> 00:53:22,635
Some of the things that you're talking I also preferred Fabricator's very flexible

649
00:53:22,635 --> 00:53:25,635
task tracking system that was quite freeform.

650
00:53:25,775 --> 00:53:28,095
Tasks didn't have to belong to a particular project.

651
00:53:28,415 --> 00:53:32,815
But one thing that's really nice about GitLab is that it's very extensible.

652
00:53:33,015 --> 00:53:36,975
So we've been able to do a little bit of what you were talking about in the

653
00:53:36,975 --> 00:53:41,075
form of merge request templates, for example, that encourage people to write

654
00:53:41,075 --> 00:53:46,935
a test plan and split their changes up into smaller pieces. This is something that isn't universal.

655
00:53:47,155 --> 00:53:48,755
It doesn't come for free. But

656
00:53:48,755 --> 00:53:53,575
we are all free as project maintainers to adopt it in our own projects.

657
00:53:53,595 --> 00:53:56,235
And several KDE projects have now adopted this.

658
00:53:56,655 --> 00:53:59,915
I'm always in favor of more projects doing it.

659
00:54:00,015 --> 00:54:03,935
So I think even if there are aspects of GitLab that are imperfect,

660
00:54:04,315 --> 00:54:07,975
we can extend it over time to make it better, which is a good thing.

661
00:54:14,795 --> 00:54:15,275
Thank you.

662
00:54:28,456 --> 00:54:29,816
I think there was a follow-up question.

663
00:54:34,956 --> 00:54:38,056
So a continuation of this.

664
00:54:39,056 --> 00:54:44,516
First of all, although Fabricator is abandoned, there is an active fork called

665
00:54:44,516 --> 00:54:49,656
Forge, and I personally am using it, and I like it pretty much.

666
00:54:50,196 --> 00:54:56,576
And another thing that Fabricator allows you to do is to stack the diffs.

667
00:54:56,576 --> 00:55:04,236
Like if you have one change that depends on another change that is pending review,

668
00:55:04,536 --> 00:55:10,076
it will make your life much easier than GitLab.

669
00:55:10,976 --> 00:55:20,316
And actually, I'm using both Fabricator and GitLab, and I have a way to make

670
00:55:20,316 --> 00:55:23,456
the Fabricator use GitLab CICD.

671
00:55:26,576 --> 00:55:34,076
If you want to do something like that, you're free to talk to me about this.

672
00:55:34,296 --> 00:55:37,576
Yeah, thank you. Those sound like some interesting improvements there.

673
00:55:37,716 --> 00:55:41,496
Without getting too much into the technical weeds here, I might recommend that

674
00:55:41,496 --> 00:55:43,176
you reach out to the SysAdmin team.

675
00:55:43,376 --> 00:55:47,416
They're the ones who maintain our infrastructure, and it might be that some

676
00:55:47,416 --> 00:55:53,536
of the technological improvements you've discovered or invented could be broadly

677
00:55:53,536 --> 00:55:57,636
useful to KDE. So, I think that would be a good resource for you to reach out to.

678
00:56:03,836 --> 00:56:09,196
Hey, check. Yeah. Hey, so there's a project called, yeah.

679
00:56:14,376 --> 00:56:16,876
There's, there's a project called open QA that.

680
00:56:35,307 --> 00:56:39,007
Check check check okay does it

681
00:56:39,007 --> 00:56:42,327
work okay so there's a project called openqa that

682
00:56:42,327 --> 00:56:45,127
helps with dating testing your party

683
00:56:45,127 --> 00:56:48,547
system as a whole it's using open susie

684
00:56:48,547 --> 00:56:51,967
and fedora and i think it would be great if

685
00:56:51,967 --> 00:56:55,947
we could in some form get it into kd infrastructure

686
00:56:55,947 --> 00:56:59,307
um is that like some so

687
00:56:59,307 --> 00:57:02,027
i i've never used selenium so i don't

688
00:57:02,027 --> 00:57:04,967
know exactly how much you can test with selenium but there are some things that

689
00:57:04,967 --> 00:57:11,347
like require the full operating system to test and so that would be a good candidate

690
00:57:11,347 --> 00:57:18,107
to have this right test that involve the full cycle of the of the system so

691
00:57:18,107 --> 00:57:20,527
yeah it's not a question sorry but it's a suggestion,

692
00:57:27,407 --> 00:57:34,267
testing okay so this is um it's cornelius directly addressed the issue of trying

693
00:57:34,267 --> 00:57:38,507
to engage the community the larger community and it kind of came up in carl's

694
00:57:38,507 --> 00:57:44,627
presentation as well and it's kind of related to the automation and systematization

695
00:57:44,627 --> 00:57:47,227
i'm just going to yell it out.

696
00:57:54,947 --> 00:57:56,647
I just wanted to ask if.

697
00:58:30,671 --> 00:58:37,591
So the question was what can we actually do to unite the goals to get the activities

698
00:58:37,591 --> 00:58:39,591
more broad to involve the whole community.

699
00:58:40,751 --> 00:58:45,531
So I already touched that a little bit. I think for me, one thing which is missing

700
00:58:45,531 --> 00:58:52,071
is this kind of central place where the community can meet not only at the conference, but also online.

701
00:58:52,471 --> 00:58:57,351
We don't really have that in any way. So where things can be presented,

702
00:58:57,511 --> 00:59:01,151
where people meet, where you can read about what KDE is doing as a whole.

703
00:59:02,031 --> 00:59:06,511
That would be one thing I think could help with that. But what's your thoughts?

704
00:59:07,771 --> 00:59:11,331
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think at last Academy, Joseph,

705
00:59:11,431 --> 00:59:17,031
you gave a presentation about our communications channels and how we often have,

706
00:59:17,151 --> 00:59:19,871
it's like a system of highways that go in all different directions.

707
00:59:20,231 --> 00:59:26,251
I think at KDE, we're very good at categorizing and subdividing and putting things into buckets.

708
00:59:26,511 --> 00:59:31,471
And I think we're often a little bit less good at broadening and seeing the

709
00:59:31,471 --> 00:59:33,251
connections between disparate things.

710
00:59:33,471 --> 00:59:37,531
So I would share the idea that if we have a place to come together.

711
00:59:39,691 --> 00:59:43,971
Venues, largely online, because that's how we work, where everybody can talk

712
00:59:43,971 --> 00:59:47,671
together and we aren't limited in scope to a narrow subject,

713
00:59:47,791 --> 00:59:50,891
I think that could help us to see the connections between things.

714
00:59:53,031 --> 00:59:56,111
Yeah, and to extend a bit to what Ava said,

715
00:59:56,411 --> 01:00:03,531
I think like a bit more public communication and for like what we saw with the

716
01:00:03,531 --> 01:00:08,131
accessibility goals is that I wrote like maybe like two,

717
01:00:08,251 --> 01:00:13,571
three blog posts in the two years and that might be not enough,

718
01:00:13,771 --> 01:00:17,331
there need to be like regular communication to the community,

719
01:00:17,551 --> 01:00:24,131
to what the committee see what's going on and my apps involvement movement.

720
01:00:53,791 --> 01:00:54,651
Thank you.

721
01:01:00,171 --> 01:01:02,991
I think that we are all we are

722
01:01:02,991 --> 01:01:06,011
all uh all of kde is eco-friendly

723
01:01:06,011 --> 01:01:11,771
so my main question is how far along are we to get this everywhere and if is

724
01:01:11,771 --> 01:01:18,591
it even possible to uh to do this automatically for applications instead of

725
01:01:18,591 --> 01:01:23,251
having people go to eco labs and make more manual testing,

726
01:01:25,765 --> 01:01:29,845
yeah so the question how we can get more of this automated testing and where

727
01:01:29,845 --> 01:01:36,485
are we i mean with getting this overview you saw where we are we have a piece of paper with a sketch,

728
01:01:39,005 --> 01:01:40,705
regarding integration with the ci.

729
01:01:43,425 --> 01:01:47,625
The current measurement process of the blue angel has has a problem that basically

730
01:01:47,625 --> 01:01:52,285
prescribes a physical setup where you need to put a measurement device in front

731
01:01:52,285 --> 01:01:56,045
of a computer so you need really this physical thing in one specific way.

732
01:01:56,445 --> 01:01:58,605
It is remotely accessible already.

733
01:01:59,045 --> 01:02:03,625
If it's good enough to be integrated in a CI where it has to work reliably and

734
01:02:03,625 --> 01:02:09,245
not break the CI for no reason, that is something we have to see and have to try out.

735
01:02:09,725 --> 01:02:18,645
From my point of view, it's a matter of iterating and I don't think we should

736
01:02:18,645 --> 01:02:22,605
enable it for all of KDE as a whole thing and see what what breaks,

737
01:02:22,805 --> 01:02:28,225
but really make it useful maybe for Ocular as the first application where we

738
01:02:28,225 --> 01:02:29,425
already have all the setup done.

739
01:02:29,945 --> 01:02:32,885
We need to write usage scenarios for other applications.

740
01:02:33,125 --> 01:02:38,885
We also have some of them, but then we could gradually enable it step by step by having,

741
01:02:39,425 --> 01:02:43,865
one application after the other enabled with that and see how much of automation

742
01:02:43,865 --> 01:02:48,825
actually also makes sense because we have to balance the effort we put into

743
01:02:48,825 --> 01:02:52,965
the automation to the the value of the results of that.

744
01:02:53,525 --> 01:02:57,225
Sometimes it's not very easy to measure the energy efficiency of an application

745
01:02:57,225 --> 01:03:02,045
and might just be overhead we introduce. Because that's another aspect.

746
01:03:02,345 --> 01:03:07,965
CI also needs energy. So we have to see how we can be smart about not introducing

747
01:03:07,965 --> 01:03:12,645
more energy consumption and trying to be more energy efficient.

748
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:20,360
I think that was a very important point. This also gets to the previous question,

749
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,320
which is how can we make the goals more visible?

750
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:27,780
I think anything that we can do to kind of push information in front of people

751
01:03:27,780 --> 01:03:29,160
who don't see it, that helps.

752
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:33,320
So in this case, for example, if we have eco stuff in the CI,

753
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,220
developers who aren't accustomed to thinking about that, all of a sudden have

754
01:03:37,220 --> 01:03:40,940
exposure to it because they push a change, the eco CI turns red,

755
01:03:41,140 --> 01:03:45,620
and then they'll say, oh, wow, this change regressed the energy efficiency of

756
01:03:45,620 --> 01:03:47,260
the software in a way I didn't even expect.

757
01:03:47,580 --> 01:03:51,900
And that's a way to gain experience of familiarity with the topic that you might

758
01:03:51,900 --> 01:03:53,740
not have, it might have been invisible to you before.

759
01:03:57,260 --> 01:04:04,840
Hello. Yeah. Okay, so the question about the KDE co, you are saying that we

760
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,500
were not able to reach out to more people.

761
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,680
So I think two questions regarding that.

762
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:15,260
Have we tried reaching out to some of our open source community friends,

763
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,080
like, for example, genome or as such?

764
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:25,760
And have we tried including them also in the same goal kind of thing?

765
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,960
And second question is

766
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,280
like one thing or one

767
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,120
general idea i see like

768
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:41,340
the giddy eco project is like it is limited to a lot of what is being done in

769
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:47,540
the europe rather than having it part of the like global community so are there

770
01:04:47,540 --> 01:04:53,680
any already like plans or discussions happening in terms of like extending it

771
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:54,960
outside of the europe Cool.

772
01:04:58,210 --> 01:05:01,270
So this is the key question, right?

773
01:05:01,330 --> 01:05:07,550
How we get more of the KDE community involved and more of the global free software community involved.

774
01:05:07,950 --> 01:05:11,630
We actually had quite some conversations with other projects about the Blue Angel certification.

775
01:05:11,870 --> 01:05:15,330
That was one hook which worked. For example, we had a number of discussions

776
01:05:15,330 --> 01:05:18,310
with the Document Foundation where they said, okay, we are really interested

777
01:05:18,310 --> 01:05:20,630
in that, but we can't do it.

778
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:24,050
So we first had to show them that it's possible to do it.

779
01:05:24,390 --> 01:05:27,050
I think we also approached the Blue Angel there with

780
01:05:27,050 --> 01:05:30,130
a little bit of a hacker spirit not following the

781
01:05:30,130 --> 01:05:33,050
letters of the word but following the spirit and this

782
01:05:33,050 --> 01:05:35,890
worked out quite well so explaining that to

783
01:05:35,890 --> 01:05:40,030
others where you can maybe compromise on some things and still get forward that

784
01:05:40,030 --> 01:05:45,690
that helps quite a bit so and i think there's still a lot more to do um i would

785
01:05:45,690 --> 01:05:53,350
say so we what what we have with the free software um the blue angel for Free Software project,

786
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:57,090
what we saw is the fact that still Oculus, the only application,

787
01:05:57,950 --> 01:06:07,170
shows that the adoption of the label itself in the industry was not as they would have hoped for.

788
01:06:08,110 --> 01:06:12,050
So there's still, of course, a lot more to do.

789
01:06:13,730 --> 01:06:17,630
At the moment, I think our focus is more on users with the next project,

790
01:06:17,770 --> 01:06:20,770
so less about the community, friends and family.

791
01:06:21,450 --> 01:06:28,390
So this would be something where you all could help with your individual projects

792
01:06:28,390 --> 01:06:30,150
with the specific groups you are in.

793
01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:36,670
And also, if there's opportunities where we can bring this in,

794
01:06:36,770 --> 01:06:38,710
we are not taking at the moment.

795
01:06:38,810 --> 01:06:42,890
So I don't know, conferences, free software conferences where we are not presenting

796
01:06:42,890 --> 01:06:46,490
the stuff yet or not getting into conversations with others.

797
01:06:47,290 --> 01:06:52,390
We should use that. I think at the moment it's not really on the top priority

798
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:59,950
of the agenda of the eco-community, so outside input would actually help a lot there.

799
01:07:02,405 --> 01:07:10,025
Short question i have a question about the energy measurement does it work in any,

800
01:07:11,045 --> 01:07:16,485
hardware and produce the same results or for example if we run it on amd or

801
01:07:16,485 --> 01:07:22,105
until it produces different numbers so can we have the same numbers running

802
01:07:22,105 --> 01:07:25,265
the test locally compared to the candy the infrastructure?

803
01:07:27,865 --> 01:07:33,085
Yeah, so the system at the moment is focused on the procedure which is prescribed

804
01:07:33,085 --> 01:07:37,765
by the Blue Angel, which specifies a specific computer you have to run it on.

805
01:07:38,225 --> 01:07:44,325
And it's not meant for comparison, but more to get some impression about the

806
01:07:44,325 --> 01:07:48,945
consumption and that you can compare over time how it changes and so on.

807
01:07:49,065 --> 01:07:53,525
So this is not very much in focus, these comparisons and so on.

808
01:07:53,525 --> 01:07:57,225
But I think with the current systems, it's possible to implement that and do that.

809
01:07:57,465 --> 01:08:03,105
And I personally would think it would be quite helpful to look more into not

810
01:08:03,105 --> 01:08:07,025
only do the measurement as a means to get the criteria fulfilled,

811
01:08:07,305 --> 01:08:10,125
because that's kind of a formal thing, but more really to get an understanding,

812
01:08:10,505 --> 01:08:15,325
compare different hardware platforms, different software frameworks,

813
01:08:15,565 --> 01:08:21,065
whatever, to get an impression what actually has an impact on the actual energy consumption.

814
01:08:21,065 --> 01:08:25,525
Consumption so but again that is something where i think there's still a lot to do,

815
01:08:27,065 --> 01:08:32,605
thank you so much um to you and everyone else who helped with the goals we just

816
01:08:32,605 --> 01:08:37,325
wrapped up and in five minutes we will start revealing the new ones.